Image Map

Louis C.K. thinks "feminists can't take a joke," but his Daily Show interview wasn't ALL bad.

Louis C.K. claims he was vacationing sans Internet when the story broke about Daniel Tosh's rape "jokes." Kind of a coincidence that he'd tweet at Tosh during the whole mess without realizing it, but hey, I've missed stuff like that while on vacay too. At any rate, he came on The Daily Show last night to talk about the whole Tosh douchebacle, and the interview is a mixed bag of insights and head/desk moments. Check it out:

Transcript here!

Okay, so he kicks it off by saying that "stereotypically speaking, feminists can't take a joke," which, fine, "stereotypically speaking" might be true, but only because of tired jokes like that one! We can take a GOOD joke, I swear (I myself, a feminist blogger, LOLed at his comment that bloggers and comedians are both terrible). Since he himself is making a joke though, maybe he doesn't really mean it? Oh, comedy. The more disturbing part of that sentence, to me, is that he considers Tosh's club performance to be a joke in the first place. For the last time: Shouting that it'd be funny if someone was "raped by five guys" ISN'T EVEN A JOKE IT IS JUST AWFUL. Moving on.

The interview greatly improves when C.K. talks about rape culture, saying:

I've read some blogs during this whole thing that enlightened me about some things I didn't know. This woman said how rape is something that polices women's lives. They have a narrow corridor that they can't go out late, they can't go to certain neighborhoods, they can't dress a certain way, cause they might get… so that's now part of me now...

a black and white photo of Louis CK against a wall

...but I can still enjoy a good rape joke.

Yes, he still turns it into a joke, but if we've learned anything from this Tosh conversation it's that some rape jokes can be funny, they just aren't always funny. That is the case with all potential jokes: Not always going to be funny!

I groaned a little at the end of this interview when C.K. brought it back around to the "gender mistake":

The women are saying 'here's how I feel about this' but they're also saying 'my feelings should be everyone's primary concern.' Now the men are making this mistake, they're saying 'your feelings don't matter. Your feelings are wrong. Your feelings are stupid.' If you've ever lived with a woman you can't step in shit worse than that, then to tell a woman that her feelings don't matter. To the men I say listen to what the women are saying about this. To the women I say now that we've heard you, you know, shut the fuck up for a minute. And let's all get back together and, you know, kill the Jews.

Again, I know it's a joke, but did it HAVE to be a "Men are from Mars Women Should Shut Up About Their Feelings" joke? I like Louis C.K. because (most of the time) he's better than that.

On the one hand, we have yet another white male comedian making tired jokes about women and women's issues. Snooze. On the other hand, we have an influential comedian discussing feminism and rape culture on a popular television show. Yay!

Do we treat this interview as a small feminist victory, or should we expect more? And can we ignore Louis C.K.'s use of the word "pussy" as an insult? Because that kinda undermines the whole "enlightenment" thing.

Related: Douchebag Decree: Daniel Tosh and the "Comedy" of Rape Culture

Bitch Media publishes the award-winning quarterly magazine, Bitch:Feminist Response to Pop Culture. Pitch in to support feminist media: Subscribe today

Subscribe to Bitch


Comments

50 comments have been made. Post a comment.

On a recent episode of his TV

On a recent episode of his TV show, Louis was essentially sexually assaulted by a date. (She berated him into oral sex and finally got him to comply by threatening to break his finger.) I'm sure he thought that was hilarious, or at least funny enough to highlight on the show. So that might explain a bit where he's coming from on the topic.

Clearly assaulted

On the episode of his show that you're referencing, he was EXPLICITLY assaulted by his date, who not only berated him but slammed his head into a window so hard that the window shattered. He was clearly shown to be both physically & sexually assaulted. I didn't feel like he treated this incident like it was "hilarious"- or even a joke. It seemed more like it was scary & confusing, & how quickly the date turned from lighthearted fun to sexual & physical violence was handled incredibly well. His show (& act) are rarely straight-forward jokes & I feel like he's shown himself to be pro-woman repeatedly, but hes a comedian! He's not going to make some big PSA, untempered by humor.

I usually enjoy Louis C.K.

I usually enjoy Louis C.K. too. I was pretty bummed to see him "defending" Daniel Tosh, but I'll accept his whole "I was on vacation with no internet" story, because I like him enough to give him the benefit of the doubt. I appreciated what he said about rape culture and what he's learned from reading blog discussions--I think that most (straight, cisgendered) men, even intelligent, progressive ones, honestly have no idea just how present the threat of rape is in women's lives. How could they? I was talking to a male friend about the whole "Tosh douchebacle" (great descriptor, btw!) and his initial stance was along the lines of "it's a joke, nothing should be off-limits when it comes to comedy, etc." I tried to explain that for, say, a woman who left Daniel Tosh's show and walked home alone, it's hard to find a rape joke funny because even if she doesn't get raped on the way home, it's all but impossible that she won't consider the possibility of it happening and let that possibility influence her behavior. He seemed to get it, which makes me think that this shitstorm has the possibility to open up a really positive dialogue.

NO LIMITS

When people say nothing should be off limits in comedy, we mean NOTHING should be off limits. NOTHING!

I'm Jewish. If I can laugh at jokes about the Holocaust (and believe me, I have), then I can laugh at jokes about rape. Laughing at a rape joke is not an endorsement of rape. Comedy is a gift that allows us to deal with the horrible things that happen in life. That is, assuming you have a good sense of humour. In my experience, feminists do not have a good sense of humour. The moment anyone starts itemizing a list of what's "not funny", I have to run the other way. Life's too short to listen to someone whine about how unfunny they think the world is.

It's not the laughing at the

It's not the laughing at the jokes, it's the telling of the jokes that people are objecting to.

Dudebros who think rape makes

Dudebros who think rape makes a handy punchline have no sense of humor. And they're lazy. If you're going to make a joke about rape,at least craft a damn joke. We're not obliged to pretend your verbal diarrhea is amusing.

Well...

I'm just going to give you the link to Ever Mainard's website. She's a comedian who made a hilarious rape joke (I'm not being sarcastic; youtube it). http://evermainard.com/

If you find you have the time, read the entry "how to make a rape joke." It conveniently conveys exactly why I disagree with you, so I don't have to.

Flawed logic

1. If I said to you "Wouldn't it be funny if you and you're family were sent off to a concentration camp and then gassed to death?", would you really laugh? That is the 'joke' being discussed.

2. You are Jewish but were you, personally, starved and gassed in a concentration camp? Would you not at least understand why someone who actually survived the holocaust may be offended by jokes about it?

3. Qualifying apologism of any kind by saying "Well I'm Jewish, and..." doesn't make you right.

4.. "The moment anyone starts itemizing a list of what's "not funny", I have to run the other way. Life's too short to listen to someone whine about how unfunny they think the world is" --- The fact that you read and then replied to a post about that very subject says otherwise.

5.4. "In my experience, feminists do not have a good sense of humour". - Like they're not funny? You are listing something that you think isn't funny. Quick, run the other way!

While I disagree with points

While I disagree with points 2 and 3, I think item number 1 is the most important thing in here.

I can't think of a single subject a joke can't be funny in. But that doesn't mean that jokes can't just be offensive.

It's a joke, definitely; it's crafted to induce humour. But it's not as much funny as it is offensive and unnecessary. And the best way of showing that to people who don't get it is the equivalence you've made in point #1.

We should expect more!

We should expect more!

Perhaps the joke's on us

Has anyone considered the possibility that the Tosh rape joke incident never actually happened and that it's all a publicity stunt to gain attention to his new animated series? He has been promoting it on his show for a while now and it's supposed to air soon.

It has and I agree.

It occurred to me, once the media turned to his 'scandalous' new show that needed to be 'cleaned up' before airing, that this entire incident was probably fictional and a publicity stunt. I am all for continuing the discussion about rape culture but the less said about He Who Shall Remain Ever Less Than 2.1, the better. He is counting on us to keep talking and to check his show out, looking for things to be angry about.

It has and I agree.

It occurred to me, once the media turned to his 'scandalous' new show that needed to be 'cleaned up' before airing, that this entire incident was probably fictional and a publicity stunt. I am all for continuing the discussion about rape culture but the less said about He Who Shall Remain Ever Less Than 2.1, the better. He is counting on us to keep talking and to check his show out, looking for things to be angry about.

Feminist don't "look for

Feminist don't "look for things to be angry about." We don't need to.

oh shut up.

oh shut up.

Feminists make things up to

Feminists make things up to be angry about and it is annoying. You have equal rights now and yet you still complain. It gets old. I support woman's rights but I will reference a Tosh stand up joke. At least you aren't in Iran where it goes housecat, then woman. Enjoy your rights as you should let Daniel enjoy his right to free speech. I mean, who goes to see Daniel Tosh expecting not to hear a rape joke. That is just outright stupidity.

People told the Suffragettes

People told the Suffragettes that they were annoying and making life hard for folks by insisting that they had a right to vote.
It is obvious when you don't qualify your comment "Feminists make things up to be angry about". Without giving examples of what those things are, you verify your lack of credibility on the subject.

The statement "You have equal rights now and you still complain." seems to indicate that you don't understand that being judicially awarded the right to vote and work outside the home does not intrinsically change the systemic violence towards women in out communities. Neither does it lessen he gap between male and female wage earners or change a plethora of other inequalities in our cultures or others, which leads me to the last point.

The statement "At least you are not in Iran, where it goes house-cat then woman." leads a reader to believe you may be suffering from ignorance and ethnocentrism (jaw drop) at the same time! P.S. you sound like you are 'complaining' about the state of women in Iran...ah but I thought all us women had equal rights with no reason to complain...?

He's getting it a bit

Well...small steps I guess. At least he has thought some on it in a rational way, absorbed what women have been saying.

We aren't saying 'my feelings should be everyone’s primary concern.' We/that one woman was saying "you are being a dick". There is a difference. I think calling for a lynching is the most similar situation - not something that white guys worry about much.

I have a friend who works for a non-profit that mainly deals with sexual assault. At a party we wound up talking about how we hardly know anyone who hasn't been assaulted/raped. Sad but true. Just general conversation really. Rape, well...its much more common than most men think, and yes, it does affect us daily for the rest of our lives. It also has an effect on women who were luckier and have not had it happen to them - they have a certain amount of fear to digest on a daily basis. There is no choice about it. Simple things like walking to your car in the parking lot can be a loaded situation.

Its kinda mean, but I just wanted to say to all of these male comics that did the initial knee jerk responses : next time you are at a birthday party or whatever and you see your kid playing amongst the other kids - run those rape stats through your head again. Do the math. And then hope.

it's a step... but that's about it.

i think you nailed it with the "at least we have an influential comedian discussing feminism and rape culture on a popular television show." that's pretty much it. unfortunately that's as much as we can expect right now. i'd hardly call this a feminist victory, but the more people who can be encouraged to use this incident as a way to think critically about rape culture and unlearn some of the patriarchal misogynist bullshit we're immersed in, the better. it's a step in the right direction.

louis c.k. has never been perfect, and honestly i've been kind of surprised at how often he's been touted as an example. i find him funny for the most part, yeah he has the "amy poehler" seal of approval, but i'm kind of baffled at how many people, feminist-identified or otherwise, have been desperately searching for male comedians to look to in this mess as our "heroes" in a sense. more than a few otherwise decent male comedians have made perfectly clear they think most feminists are downers, killjoys, annoyances. personally i don't see why i should be the one going out of my way to prove otherwise, instead of them working on their bullshit and proving to me they're not misogynist shitbags, you know? comedy is filled to the brim with them, if we didn't already notice with every other "women aren't funny... or are they?" pointless debate that resurfaces without fail once a year.

...maybe if i were more into mainstream comedy i would care, but i'd rather get my laughs from awesome drag kings/queens, witty burlesque performers, impossibly canadian kate beaton comics, and slapstick silent films than bother to wade through all the garbage that is mainstream comedy. but maybe that's just me.

"...maybe if i were more into

"...maybe if i were more into mainstream comedy i would care, but i'd rather get my laughs from awesome drag kings/queens, witty burlesque performers, impossibly canadian kate beaton comics, and slapstick silent films than bother to wade through all the garbage that is mainstream comedy. but maybe that's just me."

Not just you, don't worry. :)

hurrah!

hurrah!

Lazy Centrist Bullshit

So, let me get this straight. This 44-year-old comic, with two daughters, noted and praised for his thoughtfulness, suddenly discovers that women need to take rape culture into account in living their lives. So this is the best stand-up comedy has to offer? Fuck. We still have a long way to go.

Also, he had twitter in Vermont, but didn't notice the "rape joke" firestorm going on? As Tracie Egan Morrissey on Jezebel points out: "I call bullshit. "Tosh" and "Daniel Tosh" were trending for like a week straight. And this is his MO of support. He sent a similar Tweet to Lena Dunham during all the Girls racial backlash stuff": https://twitter.com/louisck/status/198213541168300033

A reminder, he's pulled this same nonsense with the gay community. After Tracy Morgan went on that now infamous homophobic rant, he defended Morgan and said it was a "wasted opportunity" for the gay community. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/13/louis-ck-defends-tracy-morgan_n...

This is just another privileged, straight, white, fratire comedian that doesn't get it. Can we please remove him from that pedestal we keep him on? Fuck Tosh. Fuck Louis C.K.

er...clarification. "Lazy

er...clarification. "Lazy Centrist Bullshit" is directed at Louis C.K.'s statements and not Kelsea's article. Her write-up is quite excellent as always!

another thing worth noting in

another thing worth noting in these cases is using twitter, a public forum, to send words of support like that at "random" moments. with either of those comments to dunham or tosh, those could have easily been private emails or messages. why tweet them publicly for all to see, you know?

Because he has no reason to

Because he has no reason to tweet them privately. See, this is what I'm talking about. This is just so stupid. He's being called a "rape apologist" because he sent out an ill-timed tweet to a friend of his who happened to be going through a scandal, which he had no knowledge of. I watched the daily show interview, too, and he said when he goes on vacation, he doesn't go on the internet from his computer (Same here, i just use my phone for updates or email). And there are twitter apps that you can use without going on twitter.com. Believe it or not, it IS possible to be unaware of what is happening in the world at all seconds!

It's not "worth noting", everyone is trying to demonize him for something he doesn't believe and for something he didn't do. Was it ill-timed? Yes, unfortunately, but shit like that happens and for him to be criticized for it is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. Does that mean he's a rape apologist? Fuck no.

This is what I hate about our society today. Because of the internet and twitter and facebook ad gossip sites and news in a microsecond, everyone assumes everyone is up-to-date and plugged in constantly, and the second you do something that's ill-timed, people make drastic assumptions and jump on you with nastiness that you in no way or shape deserve.

mariam, if you read my

mariam, if you read my comments (or most of the other ones posted here at least) i don't think anyone is out to "demonize" louis c.k. i never called him a rape apologist. if anything, i'm arguing more that i don't understand why we're even giving him so much credence in the wake of tosh's rude, as if he is the gatekeeper of funny-but-not-offensive comedy and all-around super fantastic dude. he's okay, but like i said before, i didn't realize when he got the super wonderful feminist seal of approval.

the point that you are responding to, that he could have messaged them privately is directly in response to this idea of hyper-public online spaces. we don't have to NEED all these conversations super publicly in microseconds, like you're saying. you can make all kinds of assumptions in 140 characters or less, and this is a situation that perfectly illustrates that. would we even care what louis c.k. has to say about rape jokes or daniel tosh threatening audience members with rape if he hadn't tweeted that, at that moment? probably not.

i think you need to step back from the discussion of "is louis c.k. is an okay dude/feminist approved comedian/decent human being?" conversation and look back at what started this in the first place, which is how we react to people who say rape jokes aren't funny.

I apologize if I wasn't

I apologize if I wasn't exactly being clear, I wasn't referring to you specifically, but he has been demonized by others. A quick Google search can attest to that. And I wasn't necessarily replying to everything you said, and it became kind of a rant on my part about this whole thing in general, so I do apologize if anything was misconstrued.

"we don't have to NEED all these conversations super publicly in microseconds, like you're saying. you can make all kinds of assumptions in 140 characters or less, and this is a situation that perfectly illustrates that."

Very true, but that's kind of the point of Twitter (and it's why I don't use it personally). I guess it's akin to commenting on someone's on facebook VS messaging them privately, but what would be the fun in that? What I'm criticizing are the people who take things and run with them and turn them into something that it's not. My view is that we shouldn't have to hide our thoughts or comments to other people on the internet in fear of them being automatically misunderstood and then vilified for something we never said. Does that make sense?

Unpleasantness

Louis CK is placed on a pedestal because he's intelligent and FUNNY. People want to hear what he has to say. His place in the public sphere was earned with decades of hard work. Re-read your post and ask yourself who would want to listen to you whine for more than five minutes.

Enough with the deification

Enough with the deification of Louis CK. Liberals are trying way too hard to find reasons to continue liking this guy. He made the same joke Tosh did two years ago, only no one talks about it. He's used very misogynistic language against Sarah Palin. Regardless of how you feel about Palin, she shouldn't be subjected to misogyny. Greta Van Susteren called Louis CK out on his misogyny but the media pretty much ignored that incident. Now imagine if he had said derogatory remarks about a liberal politician. He is not a friend to women or feminists. Just another priveleged white man who makes rape jokes and calls women names, but the liberals love him, so he's perceived as "edgy" and a "social commentator" or whatever and gets a pass. Really, I can usually count on Bitch to sniff out the BS.

If this site it to be taken

If this site it to be taken as an example then I'd say he hit the nail on the head when he said feminists can't take a joke.

This site isn't a comedy site, genius.

I'm a feminist, and I do stand-up comedy. Rape jokes can be funny, but it takes a craft that, sorry, not all men possess. Not even Louis CK, although he has one rape jke that is awesome. Wanda Sykes has a rape joke and it's funnier and told along the same lines. Stop saying women, or better yet, feminist women don't have a sense of fucking humor. Joan Rivers. Margaret Cho. Kathy Griffin. Ellen DeGeneres. Roseanne Barr. Jen Kirkman. Maria Bamford. Garfunkel and Oates. You're telling me ALL THESE WOMEN don't have a sense of humor? Shut your fucking cake hole. You know who doesn't have a sense of humor? Dull-as-dishwater men like you. You couldn't last for one second doing what we do onstage or in print. Try to have fun at a man's expense, and he will go find a pile of old crusty socks to lie upon while weeping for his mommy in the moonlight. Men can't handle shit when it comes to humor where they are the butt of the joke.

Fact is, sadly few men have a sense of humor about themselves, and when it comes from a woman, no man does. So go crawl back into YOUR hole, because believe it or not, the world is not eagerly awaiting your ignorant boyish input on anything. Especially concerning rape, humor, women, or comedy.

I honestly have to commend

I honestly have to commend him for his honesty regarding not really knowing how much sexual assault and the threat of violence interferes with our daily lives. It's something he's never really had to worry about. And you bring it up with guys and most of them are clueless about it.

I do believe him when he said he didn't know what was going on, and I find it absolutely ridiculous that he was criticized and perceived as supporting Tosh for sending out that Tweet without people asking for clarification, just another example of people jumping the gun and getting immediately on a bandwagon. I wouldn't have known about this incident had I not read about it here first, and interestingly enough, I was reading an article on MSN.com about this:

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=743773

With the way the media works now, with news coming in at lightening fast speed, it's so easy to get things misconstrued. It is an example of people taking things too far and the wrong way and not waiting for clarification, and immediately going into assumption-mode and then on the attack.

This is what he had to say about it:

"Two days later, I come home and I read these, like, bloggers and The Hollywood Reporter: 'Louis C.K. Defends Daniel Tosh Amid Rape Joke Controversy.' I had no idea. He got in trouble for making some jokes about rape and I didn't know about it, and so I'm a defender of rape. That's what everybody says now. And I've read all this stuff like, 'Shame on you, Louis C.K.' And, 'Well, I'll never watch your show. You're a rape apologist.' I've been called a rape apologist 'cause I said hi to a guy. 'Cause I said, 'Hey, nice show,' to a guy everybody was mad at."

Which to me, is pretty ridiculous that people immediately called him a "rape apologist" without getting the whole picture or at least asking him about it first. And to say that he was defending Tosh is pretty ridiculous, simply for saying he liked his TV show, without even referencing the incident (which he didn't know about). Not all of us are constantly plugged in, he probably sent it from his phone. I only use my phone for updates when I go on vacation and I'm never on the computer and don't turn on the TV. And news apps generally suck.

Anyways, I'm glad that because of this, he has gained a better perspective himself personally about rape and the threat of rape in womens' daily lives, and I'm also glad that he said that comedians can't take criticism.

Nothing Really Revealed

What has he really revealed about sexual assault? All he basically said is women are wary of dressing up sexy and going to a black neighborhood, which pretty much describes any club district/downtown in America. He didn't say black neighborhood, but come on . . . ! The solution to that, of course, is to avoid that entire club culture like the plague the way, like, intelligent men do.

Men, meanwhile, live under the constant threat of other kinds of violence their entire lives, especially white men in the exact same neighborhoods. Men worldwide are far more subject to violence than women worldwide, partly because men subject themselves to violence in order to protect women, because we're chivalrous like that. Rape is bad. Murder is, too. And so is a mugging. And so is a false rape accusation. I'm actually disappointed with Louis C.K. for letting women claim yet another a special status, but I'm glad for the STFU at the end. I don't think it was a joke, and I'm glad it wasn't. Sometimes, that's just what needs to happen. A bitch is one thing, and a good name to claim. A nag is something entirely different.

I'm pretty frustrated that he

I'm pretty frustrated that he chooses to frame this as "hurt feelings" mostly in light of the awesome "faggot" discussion from season 1 of Louie. In it Louie asks a gay friend why or if gay men are offended by the word. In return, his gay comedian friend gives the most eloquent, historically and personally grounded response to why being called a faggot isn't quite as simply as mean words = hurt feelings. I'm disappointed that he can't transfer that knowledge - that hurt feelings on the part of whole groups of people usually equals histories of personal and systemic abuse and really isn't about you offending me. Farting inspires offense. Telling your girlfriend she looks fat in those pants will probably hurt her feelings. Rape jokes inspire fear, anger and alienation.

I haven't seen the episode

I haven't seen the episode you speak of, though I have seen the specific clip from the episode you're talking about. I guess what perplexes me about that whole thing is that, after what your friend has elucidated to you about the word "faggot" -- the significance -- what the word carries to many --- Why would you then continue to perform material like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcja4WFFzDw

I just don't understand that calculus. The youtube link above is only a slight variation of a bit I've heard Joe Rogan perform, and I know no one would mistake him for being particularly enlightened on gay rights or feminism.

If you read the comments, one

If you read the comments, one man, who said he is gay, said he was laughing his ass off. I myself know a few gay men who use that term in the same way Louis CK is using it in that bit. We need to stop being offended for other people. If you're a gay man and that offends you, fine (or if it simply offends you and you're not a gay man). But don't sit there and be offended for other people. It gets you nowhere. To me, that's one of the most counter-productive things you can do. Well, you know there was a time when "faggot" wasn't a derogatory term for gay men. Just like when "bitch" wasn't a derogatory term for women. Now don't get me wrong, words are still problematic, and yeah, words can still hurt, but I think that a lot of people have gotten past it and realized that if the meaning of the word has changed from something neutral (faggot meaning a "bundle of sticks bound together as fuel"), into something derogatory, then it can be reclaimed and turned back into something else. Like how Louis demonstrated, a "faggot" being someone who's being a jerk. Look at the title of the magazine we're commenting on. We've gotten past that and claimed it as our own, turned it into something empowered and we're not using the term as derogatory for women, just like in that bit, he's not using it as a derogatory term for a gay man. Why can't the same be said for "faggot", or any other derogatory word too? Use it against them, ya know?

woah. are we really

woah. are we really entertaining the "i know one gay guy who doesn't care if people use the word faggot" argument?

No

One gay person doesn't speak for everyone, but it goes the same both ways: One person being offended by it or saying that they're hurt by it (or that it's hurtful) doesn't automatically mean that it applies to everyone. It was just an example. the same goes for the title of this publication: I know there are women who are still offended by the word "bitch" no matter how it's used. Does that mean that their view is nullified? No, their view is every much as valid as the next. But that doesn't mean that it's automatically off-limits, either, like in the case of this magazine.

In addition to garconniere's point.

It’s difficult for a word to be reclaimed when the figure taking the word back isn’t part of the minority. Jay Smooth has spoken eloquently about this (http://www.illdoctrine.com/2012/06/the_last_word_on_the_n-word.html) and I urge you to consider giving it a listen. He just really nails it. The defense of Tracy Morgan is what really soured me on Louis C.K. (the link is in an above comment). In the clip, he explains how my community missed an opportunity. So, here’s the situation: we have a straight guy instructing me on how to deal with homophobia, while at the same time talking in a lispy voice for laughs and opining on what is and is not acceptable. Let’s alter the situation a bit. If it was Rush Limbaugh who “joked” about murdering his son for being gay, would that really be an opportunity for outreach?

Aside, why is it that being able to “take a joke” nearly always requires one to be from an extreme position of privilege (straight, white men)?

In sum, when you take all his various statements and inconsistencies together the whole claim that he’s an enlightened comic is dubious at best. He’s not the feminist/gay rights hero many seem to think he is. That’s all I’m saying anyway, as it works to answer Kelsea’s opening inquiry.

Link for Tracy Morgan’s original comments if not familiar: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/10/tracy-morgans-homophobic-remark...

Thank you for your

Thank you for your thought-out reply, and I can honestly say didn't really understand why people were upset when he said it was a missed opportunity to reach out to Morgan about why his joke was wrong.

"If it was Rush Limbaugh who “joked” about murdering his son for being gay, would that really be an opportunity for outreach?"

See, that's difficult for me to say, because Limbaugh is an irrational, unreasonable person, and reaching out would be, frankly, futile and because of how bigoted he is. But, I see your point in that, that's how the gay community views Morgan and his jokes. (is that what you mean, or did I still not get it? I didn't get a lot of sleep last night and things have been going right over my head all day today)

I definitely see where you're coming from and why it's problematic for Louis CK to say what he did in regards to Morgan, so thank you. I guess why it didn't bother me so much to hear Louis CK say that is because I am myself bisexual, and I personally would have liked for people to reach out to Morgan but then again, I'm not that familiar with him.

So if you guys were having a

So if you guys were having a discussion on After Elton or something about homophobia in the media and I waltzed in and made it all about misogyny and sexism, how would that go over? Intersectionality goes both ways.

It’s a slight tangent, but is

It’s a slight tangent, but is that really the most offensive thing to you in this comment thread? The fact that a few comments bring up Louis C.K.’s defense of homophobia/racism as it links to his defense of Tosh? You make it sound like the thread is being hijacked. 6 (now 7) side comments by 3 (now 4) people doesn’t constitute that.

And in answer to your inquiry, if this was a site like After Elton and the thread was about Tosh's homophobia or something like that - and, let's say you "waltzed in" and brought up his hatred of women...I'd appreciate reading your insight. It's relevant, related, and worth discussing.

Finally, if we're discussing the sincerity or insincerity of Louis C.K.'s Daily Show comments it's important to take into account that his defense of Tosh meets the standard style of support he's given his colleagues in the past, whether Tracy Morgan (after his homophobic rant) or Lena Dunham (during the racial backlash).

yes. so good. thanks for

yes. so good. thanks for posting.

Yippee

If there's anything women don't hear enough of, it's that they should shut up about their issues and let the menfolk have their fun. And congrats to Louis CK for just now realizing that every female person he's ever known or cared about has been oppressed by the threat of sexualized violence. It must have been painful extracting that large cranium, but now he has an idea what childbirth must feel like.
Man of the Year award is in the mail.

Louis C.K. thinks "feminists can't take a joke," but his Daily

You оught to takе part іn a сonteѕt for one of
the most usеful blogs on the ωeb. I ωіll recommеnd this blog!

Straight white guys don't get

Straight white guys don't get to make homophobic, racist jokes. If they do, it's usually looked at as pretty poor taste. So why is it ok to make sexist jokes? Because it's more socially acceptable, in fact rape jokes are even on the table still. A funny joke is a funny joke, and I am pretty raunchy, but whether comedians want to admit it or not, there are social boundaries they go by. Female comedians, or gay male comedians could make sexist homophobic jokes and have it be ok. Hetero-white guys just don't have the right. Find some new material. Maybe the difference is, a crowd full of women won't kick your ass after a show, a crowd full of minority men, might.

Irony

I love that a feminist took the time to address the stereotype of feminists not being able to take a joke by writing a blog and proving she can't.

We should expect way more.

We should expect way more.

Noone complains when he jokes about

...gays (calling them even fags), blacks, hispanics, asians and other ethnicities, physically or mentally disabled people, children, old people...! He makes jokes about torturing and killing people, sexually abusing children, and whatnot. And NOBODY from these socially aware activists says anything about it! But when he jokes about rape, suddenly the all the feminists crawl out of their holes and cry "no, rape is the only thing in the world which cannot be joked about". This is "hypocrisy of feminists 101" for you.

There was even a show where he combines multiple offensive jokes one by one, to a giant ball of combo-offense, and everybody's laughing and makes one which's equally un-PC (don't remember who the target was), and everybody suddenly stops. That's when he reminds what the audience was laughing about seconds ago. A bitch-slap back to reality. I don't remember the show, but it's one of his specials.

He is right: Feminists in general have no sense of humor. It's all shits and giggles to them, as long as it's about some other group than theirs.

You know what?

I'm a feminist, and I do stand-up comedy. Rape jokes can be funny, but it takes a craft that, sorry, not all men possess. Not even Louis CK, although he has one rape jke that is awesome. Wanda Sykes has a rape joke and it's funnier and told along the same lines. Stop saying women, or better yet, feminist women don't have a sense of fucking humor. Joan Rivers. Margaret Cho. Kathy Griffin. Ellen DeGeneres. Roseanne Barr. Jen Kirkman. Maria Bamford. Garfunkel and Oates. You're telling me ALL THESE WOMEN don't have a sense of humor? Shut your fucking cake hole. You know who doesn't have a sense of humor? Dull-as-dishwater men like you. You couldn't last for one second doing what we do onstage or in print. Try to have fun at a man's expense, and he will go find a pile of old crusty socks to lie upon while weeping for his mommy in the moonlight. Men can't handle shit when it comes to humor where they are the butt of the joke.

Fact is, sadly few men have a sense of humor about themselves, and when it comes from a woman, no man does. So go crawl back into YOUR hole, because believe it or not, the world is not eagerly awaiting your ignorant boyish input on anything. Especially concerning rape, humor, women, or comedy.